RADIO INTERVIEW AND DISCUSSION WITH POET STALEY

Think Again: Tim Staley on Poetry

Recorded live in KTAL Studios on 3/17/2025 : In this program, poet and English teacher Tim Staley treats us to some perspectives on poetry, language, images, and how they shape our ideas of reality. The conversation opens with Tim reading Rumi, the Persian Sufi, mystic poet and Muslim scholar. Tim expands into how poetry can bring us into the moment, the very centers of our own lives. He guides us through an exploration of how our minds and emotions are influenced by word choices. Tim shares his thoughts about how AI may come to influence our writing, even of poetry. In addition to Rumi, he reads writings from several poets, including his own and those of Las Cruces, NM resident and internationally recognized poet Joseph Somoza.

LISTEN TO THE SHOW HERE

APPLEPEAR ORDER HERE!

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or Venmo $19.99 to @Tim-Staley-5 (be sure to include your mailing address).

ApplePear isn’t just a limited-edition poetry chapbook, it’s an olfactory experience! Each chapbook is 6X9 inches and hand-scented using proprietary flavor bar technology. This chapbook contains 16 poems, 11 cartoons, and the number of jokes depends on how fearlessly you’re looking.

Here are 2 APPLEPEAR poems for you to taste of:

Here is what the critics are saying about APPLEPEAR:

BOOK REVIEW : SO MUCH MORE BY DARREN C. DEMAREE

SO MUCH MORE: Abstracts, Unfinished Sequences, and Political Poems 

(Small Harbor, 2024)

by Darren C. Demaree

Flailing Load Stones Catching Light

A Book Review by Tim Staley

In the title poem of W.H. Auden’s 1969 collection City Without Walls, Auden lays out the “dire poetics” which would topically drive American poetry for the next 55 years: environmental concerns, colonization, white supremacy, civil and political rights, the prison industrial complex, cops and robber barons, the fear of a computer takeover, violence, poverty, consumerism, and our addiction to gadgets, just to name a few. At the end of Auden’s poem you see all these dire concerns keeping the speaker up late at night in New York City. There’s nothing wrong with using your talents to stand up for what you believe in. Darren C. Demaree practices dire poetics as well, but there’s a difference between him and Auden in terms of their speaker’s location. If you imagine Auden’s speaker at sea describing the horrors, he’s in a yacht watching a sinking lifeboat of America on the horizon. The lifeboat is mostly submerged and there is a lone survivor flailing. You keep your eyes on the person flailing because flailing keeps our attention, and when you try to help them they pull you under too. 

Demaree, a restless and probing poet (with 23 poetry collections by the age of 43) has developed a technique reliant on the flailing of language. Demaree’s speaker admits near the end of the book, “I always flail / with more words / than the washing off of words”. In So Much More sentences fly off in every direction but you don’t know if they even are sentences because there’s rarely punctuation, but you feel the presence of sentences because that’s how English builds; for example, you can’t attach Lego bricks by their sides. There’s just one direction to build Lego bricks and that’s how English is too. 

The way in which Demaree is punctuation free risks more ambiguity than a touch like, say, W.S. Merwin’s when it comes to no punctuation. Merwin uses line breaks to parse and tie down meaning, and much of So Much More comes to us right-justified as unindented bricks of flailing text. I’ve never felt lost in a Merwin poem, but some of Demaree’s greatest successes in So Much More occur when you get lost, when you become unmoored, when you’re not sure if you’re in the middle of the sentence, the end of one, the beginning of another, or some rarefied territory in between. This form lends itself to the individual reader’s style of Lego building, allowing us to run-on, linger, or slingshot at will. For example, look at this structure from “#14”, the first piece in the unfinished bone requires bone sequence: 

“…empathy empathy / empathy is the ending of just enough men to make it worth / being everything we need more of it should be glowing by / now that is how much we need it…”

The “it” before “should be glowing” could be doing at least 3 things at once: ending one phrase, beginning another, or doing both. I start playing a game of darting fragments. I start arranging blocks of information spilling from different phrases into sentences, moving backwards, forwards, swimming around, flailing for fun.

Demaree is also a master of repetition on par with Sylvia Plath. Unlike Plath, he often repeats 3 times, instead of 2, as he does with “empathy” in the passage above. In a 2024 interview Demaree said, “if you use a phrase once it’s typical, twice it’s hitting the brakes, three times it’s a slingshot.” In the same interview Demaree names Samuel Menashe as an influence. Samuel Menashe once said, “Rhyme seems natural to me. There is a lot of rhyme, unnoticed, in ordinary speech.” I mention this Menashe quote as Demaree relies on those unnoticed rhymes; for example, in the passage above notice all the soft, short “e” and long “e” sounds under the surface, not getting the attention they otherwise would in a lineated poem. 

Many of these poems are the hypothesis and the figuring out which gives the book its charm; however, within each experiment is a load stone, a natural stone strong enough to bear significant weight. A foundational “sentence” or sticking point that seems to inform or give purpose to the flailing. You’ll have to read So Much More to find your own favorites; until then, here’s some of my favorite flailing load stones catching light: 

“when we make promises to the wind we are as worthless as a held breath”

“I have been threatened by this world to be made into something other” 

“if you’re stopping to create the insignia then the revolution has already failed” 

“I thought we all promised to take the capital” 

“a garden that refuses that refuses to steer the bloom towards the merciless crowds that want so badly to name the garden” 

“the fixed dissolves in the fixing the fixing” 

Demaree writes, “America chose to drown in the desert”. Imagine in the South Central New Mexico desert a carp writhing around in an irrigation ditch that’s been cut off. There’s just a little bit of water left, more of a puddle, and he’s flailing in the bright sun for his last breath and nobody’s watching him drown, but every once in a while the light cuts through the traditional dire poetics and catches the flail of scales, spine, and tail just right. With light Demaree catches all of it and So Much More, just right.

January 3, 2025

Las Cruces, NM

USA 2024 ELECTION SEQUENCE

USA Election Poem ~ October 30, 2024

Served with a ramekin of zesty ranch,
a human arm. This is the city
of big butts and bigger gyatts.
Of the sunrise over Gyatt Mountain
I taste baby powder, sulfur, regret.

“How long did it take to get here?”
“How long has the clock been stuck
at 3:07 PM?”

Pew says “about two-thirds (66%)
of the voting-eligible population
turned out for the 2020 presidential
election.” Yet somehow we’re divided
perfectly in half like a clay spaghetti
tennis court?!

From space your broken toe looks
terrible, and your heartache worse,
and your piñata full of lukewarm
bile, bluegray Kisses and ill-
conceived haiku is exploding
errant syllables everywhere and a moral ~

a moral is an egg
on a green enchilada flopped
over easy.

PS: “Only a creative mind can make use of hope” – Jericho Brown

~~~

USA Election Poem 2 ~ November 3, 2024

Out in the desert I found a TRUMP sign
beside Pat Garrett’s death site.
Immediately came the metaphor making:
TRUMP’s the lawman that killed Billy the Kid.
Which makes Billy the Kid the Kamala.
Which makes me the one
on the high ground,
top of the hill, who killed Sheriff Pat Garrett.

Suzanne said the man
who put the TRUMP sign there
wasn’t making a metaphor, but if he was,
TRUMP would be Billy the Kid haunting his killer, dancing on the cross
carved into concrete, singing lawmen die,
outlaws never do.

In a stroke of switcheroo,
I pulled the TRUMP sign
from Pat Garrett’s death site
and placed it on the nearest abandoned car:
a modern sport coup in sparkly blue,
blown out from the inside,
a cartel job or something worse,
the windshield glittering like a magic carpet
across the dash, the frontend chopped
completely off.

Maybe the man who put the TRUMP sign
beside Pat Garrett’s death site
is the island of trees, some up to 30 feet,
standing out in a circuitry of arroyos
and offroads
and powerline service roads,
and maybe these 2 roadrunners
scrambling across the trail are you and me,
and maybe the creosote
rattled by the breeze
remains undecided.

~~~

USA Election Poem 3 ~ November 4, 2024

I’m just writing this poem instead of eating highlighters, chewing gum foil, raisins, or Sylvia’s halloween candy.

This afternoon I wrote “environment”, “change”, and “open border” on a piece of scratch paper in a column labeled BIG. I wrote in pen so it’s permanent.

Most Americans vote for their team, despite this season’s roster. Team captains come and go, mascots are always silly, it’s the score that counts.

Ronald Reagan played right guard for the O AND the D. Yes, he played for Eureka from 1929 to 1931 but none of the plays were of his design.

How could my poem ride a bike up a steep hill and benefit your heart? We don’t need to argue anymore about whether the songbird is pleased with its singing. Sylvia says ants have more brain cells than any other insect.

My student said “coach said if you don’t cheat, are you really trying to win?” A plastic drinking straw, a missing screwdriver with a long silver shaft, boxes of dead batteries and blown bulbs atop the fridges overflowing.

PS: Coach said he doesn’t like Hail Mary.

~~~

USA Election Poem 4 “the donkaphant” ~ approximately 9 PM, November 5, 2024

The donkaphant’s middle finger is so tall it comes all the way around 

to make a circle 

of middle-finger-fellowship. 

I tried getting away from the donkaphant, as soon as I started crossing ~ the bright upright 

red hand of halt!!

write enough poems 

economics stop

driving your vote.

I saw a man leaving Albertsons today, staring at a single red rose, utterly dumbfounded ~ he had the telltale gait and demeanor of the donkaphant.

I let the donkaphant rumble with dust bunnies, let it tussle with sourdough crumbs, then I let it out with the dogs and mopped the kitchen with vinegar, lukewarm tap and cobalt qualms.

you can let the donkaphant kiss you good night, but no tongue!

~~~

USA Election Poem 5 “I always forget that u in fabulous” ~ November 8,2024

What’s supply and demand have to do with the dead Mediterranean gecko on the key card reader to get into my school?

The little baby froze to death with his eyes wide open last night, the mountains are dusted with snow, how cute.

You want me to care about all the dead people everywhere else when somehow, this little Mediterranean gecko is stiff with his black onyx eyes wide-open, dull enough to reflect my silhouette. I touched its tail. It did not move.

I walked to the library, but it was closed. I wanted coffee, not books, not words, just the liquid oubliette of drug.

What’s supply and demand got to do with all this dying? Why do I feel like crying, when it’s just a dumb old Mediterranean gecko ~ you can tell by his name he doesn’t belong here.

I voted. I got a little sticker for voting. I put the sticker in my car’s cup holder. When my team lost, I put the sticker on my dumpster ~ supply and demand ~ how poetic.

~~~

poet’s note ~ 1 PM, November 11, 2024 : I’ve been wondering what it was about this 2024 presidential election that inspired so many poems from me and also, what inspired me to so feverishly share them on social media? I write everyday but rarely post my poems. Perhaps it was that many people had the election on their minds, and I wanted to capitalize on that possible interested audience? Did I finally have a built-in audience like a Grateful Dead cover band? Perhaps the thought of another 4 years of Trump scared me, and then when it was made clear that most of our country voted Republican, I went from scared to empty. 2 of my poetry heroes, James Tate and Anne Waldman, both say that writing while exhausted can bring about sometimes great but typically surprising work as it bypasses ego; perhaps that’s what happened with me, perhaps my tiredness of all things Trump led to an explosion of poetry that superseded ego.

I wrote the first poem with my students throughout the day, and it came about automatically and was brimming with joy. I trusted the automatic and joyful nature of it immediately. When a poem comes fast, a poet feels it may be a gift from the poetry gods. What’s the old adage, never look a gift poem in the mouth? This poem wasn’t edited or revised for meaning or sound or any of that.

The second poem is one that has been brewing for over a year. What I mean is I have been wanting to finish a poem about the Pat Garret death site ever since I first visited it last year. It really is 2 miles directly South of my school, out in the desert. I went back to the site this year on November 3, and saw the Trump sign, and I really did remove it and place it in a destroyed vehicle. After the first draft, I returned to my journal from a year ago to see if I could cherry pick some lines about my first visit to the death site, which I did. Finally I had enough components to play with in a poem and I went for it. I made a few changes and them posted. I didn’t fiddle with it forever, like I do most my other poems, because election poems are urgent, and will rot and fester in the sun if left unattended.

The third poem was a way for me to push my idea that we only vote for our team. As an artist who feels shit, as someone who roots for the losers, how else can I rationalize the majority of my country’s electorate without separating Trump from the Republican party? Americans handle their political party the same way they handle their favorite NFL team; for example, most Americans only care about football during football season, see how easy the comparison?

The forth poem came on the evening of voting day. Results were not in yet, and I didn’t know that Trump was winning. This poem was an escape from waiting, as perhaps, all poems are. I thought the AI image of the donkaphant was funny. Instead of pulling away into hateful division, I went the other direction. Instead of using heated hyperbole (which was a common move by other social media poets), I used trippy, and hopefully humorous, juxtaposition. I didn’t want to write anything I would feel embarrassed about with my community members, coworkers and students if Trump won.

After I learned Trump won I withdrew into my non-poetic self. I got numb and tired and irritable and had zero energy for students, and even less for loved ones. I did not write one word from Wednesday morning to Friday morning, which is rare for me. I wondered at the time, why? Mary Ruefle talks about how we write poems when we are distressed but sometimes we don’t; why do we sometimes write when distressed and sometimes shut down our writing when distressed? Perhaps I was empty somehow emotionally, especially after having written 4 poems already that week. Was I too sad, too shocked, too incredulous, too mad, too disappointed to write? I walked into school Friday and saw that dead lizard by the door and became very emotional about it. I couldn’t handle that dead lizard. Then I was in my classroom before school doing my daily meditation and core strengthening and I was asked to spell “fabulous”, I kept spelling it in my head with 7 letters, forgetting that “u” in the middle. WOW. I always forget the u (u = you) in fabulous. That was the spark and then whole poem just poured out. So even though I wan’t writing on Wednesday and Thursday my subconscious never unplugged the hotplate, and once I met some requisite number of poetic ingredients (images, ideas, good lines) I just mixed it quickly and served cold.

I share these 2024 election day poems on my personal site today so we can remember what went down according to one human’s inner life. That’s what poetry is, the inner life. When it comes to someone’s inner life, you have nothing but your own to compare it to. Elections are the outer life. We, you and me, are the gray area stuck in-between but with poetry we can grease ourselves up to slip the shackle of boring old polarization.

FIRST EVER INTERVIEW WITH A MANMADE LAKE

I’m thrilled to share my statement on Lake Martin, Alabama, which is where I grew up. This poem took many years to write as I had to write through all my sentimentality and hang-up and fond memories of a privileged life to finally give you what I needed to give you. There was a Black town called Kowaliga that was destroyed by the making of Lake Martin; is a poem supposed to lean into that troubling American history the way this informative Youtube video does?

Check out my new poem here. THANKS to Jokes Review for publishing this poem.

WALT WHITMAN BIRTHPLACE ASSOCIATION PRESENTS POETS BUILDING BRIDGES

What a thrill and honor to be a part of this event!

Recorded Live Sep 25, 2024 — Poets Building Bridges — Poetrybay Productions and the Walt Whitman Birthplace’s international outreach for 2024 – Series 3 – Based on a shared small-group experience, these Saturday zoom sessions engage three distinct and well defined communities of poets with each other to share work and foster further interaction. Poets Building Bridges – Bringing The World’s Poets Together Under One Roof Introduction: George Wallace 00:391:00 Introduction: WWBA Executive Director- Caitlyn Shea 1:002:25 Sriramgokul Chinnasamy 8:25 Dr. Sonali Pattnaik 9:50 G Vasanthakumaran 17:31 Sowrabha Karinje 24:24 Nitin Kulkarni 29:57 George Wallace 38:35 John Roche 41:00 Michelle Otero 43:19 Tim Staley 51:37 Elise Stuart 1:01 Bruce Holsapple 1:09 George Wallace 1:16 Anton Yakovlev 1:19 Moira O’Brien 1:22 Janet Kolstein 1:32 Anton Yakovlev 1:41 Outro: George Wallace 1:49

WHEN A POET INFILTRATES THE FRAT ~ A SEQUENCE

Animal House
University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
A Social Fraternity, 1993

Big Brother says don’t worry. His girl was pregnant last year. Smell him reminisce when he’d been pinned, struck down by the same news his girl had laid, how for months she’d cry when they’d screw. An old spicy aroma drips thick and waxy from our apocrine glands. Sweat beads. Temples glisten. Human spines, glaucous and blurry, the size of eyelashes float my vision. I wonder how many aborted embryos haunt this entrance hall. At our feet the housemother’s dachshund remains in heat. Through her designer houndstooth diaper, she keeps trying to lick her blood. Nobody cares she can’t clean herself like she’d like to. Big Brother says grab the other leg, says drag the heavy white sofa across the pledge polished foyer, says don’t worry, scar the floor, out the big red doors. He aims to let some air in, to prop windows with speakers, to handle Jack and scoot the cherry through the joint as front yard sycamores ratchet the sun. I recite the Greek alphabet like a steamed sandwich recites steam, like a See-N-Say talking barnyard, push the animal, pull the string.

~~~

Fraternal Order of the Invisible Empire
University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
A Social Fraternity, 1993

2 Black women fry chicken in the kitchen

and since we’re southern gentleman

we put Ms. before their first names. 

In the front yard our groundskeeper

picks up cigarette butts and beer bottles. 

In the shady column of our whiteness

my pledge brother Joey says

I can’t wait ‘til we’re activated

and he picks up after us. 

I pick him up word for word

as if I was wearing a wire.

One night during Hell Week they bring us

to the second floor

up from the matte black basement

to squeeze into a closet.

Our tallest and fattest on the bottom

by the weight of our class

go flat from hands-and-knees.

Every pledge class squeezes into this closet

and never comes out.

Or comes out a KKK sheriff.

Or comes out CFO

of a car wax company.

I’ve been composing this poem 

from inside that very closet.  

There’s never too many 

handshakes to memorize

when there’s only one.  

~~~

Down In the Matte Black Basement
University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
A Social Fraternity, 1993

The floors walls ceiling

the benches and stairwells

the fixtures for the lights

the cage around the EXIT signs

everything matte black.

Down in the matte black basement 

pledges by tender fingers

hang from jagged ceiling trusses.

The night before a home game

a jam band on the matte black stage

plays Any Major Dude Will Tell You.

Down in the matte black basement

2 strippers strip on the matte black stage.

Around her waist one wears a gold body chain.

Both having fun until the one

running an ice cube along

the rim of her privates gets too

close and her privates

suck the cube inside her.

She shivers shakes contorts her face

screams it hurts! It hurts!

she stomps until it slips

until it hits like a sad little icicle

the matte black stage of our exculpation.

Down in the matte black basement

one of the brothers drops his drawers

for a prostitute’s performance of oral.

We whistle and shriek

like a Crimson Tide field goal.

Down in the matte black basement 

we pay-to-play, we slush fund

we pitch tee shirt designs.

Down in the matte black basement 

One of the twins shatters his radius

in a human wheelbarrow scenario.

The Pledge Master tells the twins

tell your parents it happened

in your apartment. I noticed

the flawlessness of his face

red and wrung like a popped zit.

Down in the matte black basement 

pledges recite the Greek alphabet

most just mouth it.

Down in the matte black basement 

I steal the twins’ credit card

go the mall buy a comforter

a Bob Marley tee shirt and a jade

jewelry boy box for my girl.

Down in the matte black basement

blasting from matte black speakers

Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath

to break the pledges mentally.

48 hours of tightly focused laser

repeating that single-track

that beginning storm over and over

that lightning bell thunder riff

before Ozzy’s satanic poetry:

What is this that stands before me

Figure in black which points at me

Turn round quick and start to run

Find out I’m the chosen one

Oh no…